Blog #54 - Plato's Ideal State - Would it work today?

We've spent a little more time on Plato's ideal society this semester than I have in past semesters; maybe b/c this time around the world seems to be crumbling around us with roiling stock markets and the Big 3 impending collapse. Where better to look than the past when the future looks so bleak, right? Well, maybe we can learn something.

Several criticisms were brought up of this ideal society:

1. Where would the innovation come from if everyone be content? Doesn't innovation come from competition and competition come from peoples' desire to be better?

2. Why do they need soldiers if everyone is content? Is it just for protection from other city-states? Or, did Plato ever intend for this city to exist? If that is the case, why are the soldiers really there?

3. What kind of guarantee is there that the philosophers will rule in everyone's best interests? Is there an impeachment process? Can the peasants overthrow the rulers?

4. In the interests of specialization, what if you get bored with your job? What if you don't want that job? What if that job that you do best is NOT something you love doing? To use an example from 4th hour, I might do math really well, but that doesn't mean I want to be an accountant.

5. Is there no social mobility? What if we don't like the class that we're born into?

This link http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2g.htm gives a good, brief synopsis of the first four books of the Republic in which this society is described. I have countered many of these arguments in a devil's advocate style by appealing to one of Socrates' universal questions - courage, justice, virtue, wisdom, moderation, beauty.

The question before you is: Can Plato's society be fixed to make it more ideal to fit a 21st century American audience? Why or why not?

Things to ponder while answering this question: Is Plato's society so incompatible with American ideals and tastes and traditions that it cannot be fixed?  Can Plato's society work for people of another country? What would you have to fix in order for it to work in America? Could it work on a national or state level or could it only work on a small scale? If it only works on a small scale, what's the use?

 - Also, are Americans too individualistic to give up some of our freedoms or luxuries for the greater good of society.  This will be a topic - the greater good vs. the desires of the individual - as we go on through the semester.  

250 word minimum response.  Due Thursday, Dec. 13 by class time.

Also, new philosophy books in our school media center:
      
       

     

Enjoy!

Blog #16 - 4 Questions on profit and salaries

Please pick one of the following questions that we discussed in class on Wednesday:



1. Marx believed that profit = exploitation, b/c the people who took the profit didn't necessarily earn it. The workers never get a share of the profit (or rarely do like the Big 3's profit sharing checks), so Marx believed that the owners didn't deserve those profits.
- Do you agree with Marx? Why or why not?

A Swedish website explains profit = exploitation better than I did: http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/marx.htm

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's take on Marx: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/#3



2. One of the qualifications for taking federal bailout funds is that CEOs' salaries are limited to $500,000 / year. Do you think that this limitation on CEOs' salaries is a good or bad idea? Why?

"Why CEOs Are Overpaid" article - http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm

Top TARP handouts, top CEOs salaries, CNN - http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/11/banks.ceos/index.html



3. Some people look at the expenses that companies have spent and feel that certain people are extremely overpaid. Why do some CEOs get paid millions even while their company is failing? Forbes magazine ranks the best-performing CEOs and the most overpaid leaders of failing companies. Some people have been talking about limiting all salaries, regardless of industry. What do you think about that? Why?

New York Times' article, "You Try To Live on $500K in This Town."


4. Do you think the gap / disparity between salaries (for example, between entertainers or sports figures and doctors, lawyers, etc.) is justifiable, especially in today's economy?

Russell Bishop's article, "What Myth Are You Stuck In?" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-bishop/todays-economy-what-myth_b_168959.html